ADHD | Episode 17 | PWMW Podcast

[00:00:00] Hey everyone, welcome to Psychology With My Wife. I'm the wife and I'm the psychology student. Welcome to episode 17

[00:00:09] There we go. It's been a while.

[00:00:12] A long while. I think what is it January or something like that maybe? Yeah, and now it's

[00:00:19] July August. Oh my gosh. It's August now. Holy smokes

[00:00:24] Yeah, and we reason why is we had a little kid

[00:00:29] His name is Jackson and he's amazing

[00:00:34] But he has been keeping us occupied for the last little bit

[00:00:38] But we finally decided to do an episode. We needed one to push one out

[00:00:47] But yeah, we're in Alberta right now at my parents house, so we're just doing an audio episode here

[00:00:52] So if you're used to watching the episodes our next one

[00:00:56] We'll probably have video but just since we're kind of doing this one in my parents basements

[00:01:01] We're just doing audio for you guys today. Yeah, hopefully I'll be using different editing software and stuff too

[00:01:07] So hopefully it all works out

[00:01:09] Okay today's episode is going to be on

[00:01:13] ADHD or attention deficit hyperactivity disorder

[00:01:19] Yes, this is a pretty

[00:01:21] A topic that I think people feel like they know a lot about but maybe

[00:01:25] They don't you know, I mean like people talk about it a lot. I think people self-diagnosed with this a lot

[00:01:33] So it'll be great today for me and people listening to learn a little bit more about what it actually is

[00:01:41] Yeah, and exactly that the first little bit here

[00:01:44] I just want to quickly go over what the official diagnosis is in the diagnostic manual

[00:01:51] and

[00:01:53] It's actually listed under a neuro developmental disorder

[00:01:57] So other types of neuro mental neuro developmental disorders include intellectual disabilities

[00:02:05] communication disorders that's like stuttering

[00:02:08] and

[00:02:09] autism

[00:02:10] learning disorders

[00:02:12] And also motor disorders, which is something like Tourette's

[00:02:17] They're all in that category

[00:02:19] One thing that about neuro developmental disorders is that they usually show symptoms in the developmental period

[00:02:27] meaning quite young usually

[00:02:30] And really up until they're an adult sometimes

[00:02:37] This means that the current science suggests that you're born with the genes to have ADHD

[00:02:43] Okay, so it's something that can actually be recognized and officially diagnosed at quite a young age

[00:02:50] Yes, there is some it is kind of a gray area and

[00:02:57] Just kind of acknowledging how children act. Yeah, so do they have ADHD?

[00:03:03] Of course a lot of the symptoms of ADHD

[00:03:06] Can also just be normal childhood behavior exactly. Yeah

[00:03:12] Because ADHD symptoms of ADHD include inattention

[00:03:18] disorganization

[00:03:20] hyperactivity impulsivity

[00:03:24] Which can look like over activity intruding other space

[00:03:29] inability to stay on task

[00:03:31] So today without being said today, I just want to look at what the symptoms look like in

[00:03:38] Children what they look like an adult

[00:03:40] The co-morbidity of them with other disorders with trauma with addiction

[00:03:47] Some neuropsychological definitions regarding ADHD

[00:03:52] treatment options available

[00:03:55] parenting skills

[00:03:58] And also some impact of social media and other mental disorders

[00:04:03] just in terms of like validation and

[00:04:06] stimulation from

[00:04:08] social media

[00:04:09] Sounds good. Yeah

[00:04:16] So the DSM has a

[00:04:31] Few different categories of symptoms that

[00:04:35] You need to have in order to be diagnosed with it

[00:04:38] So the first one is a persistent pattern of inattention or hyperactivity impulsivity

[00:04:45] For inattention, it has to be at least six months to agree that is

[00:04:51] inconsistent with the developmental

[00:04:55] Period and negatively impact social academic endeavors

[00:05:01] I'm gonna be so annoying right now

[00:05:03] Inattention is a word. Yeah. Wow. I feel like I've never heard that word before

[00:05:07] And when you say it it like hurts my ears a little

[00:05:11] You know, like it sounds like one of those words that has like the wrong beginning in front of it

[00:05:16] But what did you what did you picture?

[00:05:18] not

[00:05:19] I don't know. I can't think of a different word that it would be but I just feel like people just say like bad attention span or like

[00:05:26] something like that

[00:05:29] Inattention, okay, we're learning new words here today guys

[00:05:33] Yeah, so I'm gonna quickly go over to these because like probably most people don't even care about them too much

[00:05:40] I cover our bases though. Yes, there's nine things that can be characterized as inattention

[00:05:47] Often fails to give close attention to details or makes careless mistakes

[00:05:51] Has difficulty sustaining attention and tasks or play activities

[00:05:55] Does not seem to listen when spoken to directly does not follow instructions fails to complete schoolwork chores of duties

[00:06:03] difficulty organizing tasks and activities

[00:06:06] avoids disliked or is reluctant to engage in tasks that require sustained mental effort

[00:06:13] Often loses things necessary for tasks or activities

[00:06:17] Distracted by extraneous stimuli

[00:06:20] Forgetful and daily activities. So almost every single item you just listed there sounds like it could be a very typical behavior of

[00:06:29] You know any child so

[00:06:33] Do they need to have a certain number of those nine things for it to be considered an

[00:06:39] Actual sign of inattention and possible ADHD

[00:06:44] They do actually I didn't even write that down. I will edit it in the comment. There is a certain amount

[00:06:52] That they must have okay check the description. Yeah, we'll have it in there

[00:06:59] Yeah, that's important actually

[00:07:01] I'm pretty sure because there's that and also has to persist for six months for six months

[00:07:06] Okay, that makes yeah, that seems reasonable. So it's it's most likely like four or five

[00:07:12] Because often if a child is acting out or something that behavior

[00:07:17] Likely wouldn't last for that specific behavior wouldn't last or a combination of those behaviors would last for over six months

[00:07:25] Yeah, that's a pretty long time especially one key thing is

[00:07:30] When there's interventions when interventions are done and their behavior stays the same

[00:07:35] Might be an indicator that

[00:07:38] Something is different. Yeah, absolutely

[00:07:43] And the other

[00:07:47] Persistent pattern is the hyperactivity impulsivity. So that's like

[00:07:51] Vigiding or tapping leave seats in situations when remaining seating is expect expected

[00:07:57] Runs about or climbs in situations where it's inappropriate

[00:08:01] unable to engage in leisure activities quietly

[00:08:04] Often in quotation here on the go

[00:08:08] Talks excessively blurts out an answer before the question is being completed

[00:08:13] difficulty wait and their turn

[00:08:15] interopster intrudes others or

[00:08:19] It's asking you're using other people's things without asking your receiving permission

[00:08:25] I

[00:08:27] Do one of the clients that I work with

[00:08:31] He has ADHD as well as ASD

[00:08:36] Autism yeah, and

[00:08:39] He is bad. It's not a symptom you can tell it just different from the other

[00:08:44] clients with autism that

[00:08:47] He is very

[00:08:49] intrusive

[00:08:51] And invades space everyone's bubble. Yeah and takes things without

[00:08:57] Asking and like he knows he shouldn't take it but he takes it

[00:09:00] Yeah, it's really easy to see how so many people

[00:09:05] Diagnose themselves with ADHD because from both of these two different lists so many of those behaviors

[00:09:12] People have and if they don't have the knowledge of okay. Well, I need to have

[00:09:18] This many of these behaviors for this prolonged period of time for it to potentially be ADHD

[00:09:26] It's easy how people are like oh, I'm always forgetful or

[00:09:30] All that person is always intruding in my space and these

[00:09:34] Small pieces from these lists that just feel like oh well they must have it or I must have it

[00:09:40] So that's why it's really important to people do not self-diagnose if you

[00:09:46] Are learning about topics like this and you actually are thinking hey

[00:09:50] I have quite a few of these things well then you should go and see your doctor and try to get an official

[00:09:58] Diagnosis done if you think that it might be possible because then if you get an official diagnosis

[00:10:02] You also can get supports for it too. So that would be the way to go exactly

[00:10:08] Yeah, and there is some stuff in the DSM to prevent that as well

[00:10:13] Apparently symptoms need to appear before the age of 12

[00:10:16] And that's again because it's neuro developmental and it should appear by then

[00:10:23] Otherwise, you know it might just be a problem learned behavior or something right?

[00:10:29] They must appear in two or more settings

[00:10:32] Which again, what's that mean?

[00:10:34] like you would have symptoms and

[00:10:37] Say at home and also at school. Okay. Yeah, so it's not just like oh they go to school and they act out like crazy or

[00:10:45] They're crazy at home. It's yeah

[00:10:48] Consistency is needed consistency of very inconsistent behavior

[00:10:53] Yes

[00:10:56] Another one too is clear evidence that affects quality of life which again, this is kind of like a

[00:11:02] Doctor would just check market regardless like that's not really

[00:11:07] Obviously they'll say oh because you came to me it's clearly affecting you

[00:11:11] And the last one is does not appear exclusively during schizophrenia or another disorder

[00:11:17] Yeah, because one of those other disorders might just have symptoms that overlap with it

[00:11:24] But oh they definitely do like any

[00:11:28] High-end like schizophrenia if they were having an episode they would pretty much do all of those things

[00:11:33] They would not have any attention and they would be hyperactive

[00:11:36] Yeah, so it's just being cognizant that you're not just diagnosing disorder or on top of disorder

[00:11:42] Simply because there is overlap exactly. Yeah

[00:11:47] So

[00:11:48] With all that there's and it being genetic. There is some

[00:11:54] Causes that they are reasons they suspect people have ADHD one is a low birth weight which in general seems to be like

[00:12:05] A high risk for most things right I think that's what we learned

[00:12:10] Okay, it seems that it would be interesting that being having a low birth rate would put you at a higher risk for ADHD

[00:12:17] If it's like a gene that you have though

[00:12:21] What could you?

[00:12:23] Leave as a gene that you're born with

[00:12:26] It just seems like what would your birth weight have to do with it then if you're

[00:12:31] I don't know 100% about the

[00:12:35] Birth weight but because it's developmental

[00:12:37] Maybe it's there's a higher risk for things for not developing properly. Okay. Yeah, so

[00:12:44] Essentially you could have the gene

[00:12:46] But if you had a higher birth weight and developed really quickly or something then it might never show itself

[00:12:53] Maybe yeah

[00:12:54] Yeah

[00:12:56] Smoking during pregnancy is another reason. Yep

[00:13:00] I'm an alcohol exposure in the utero

[00:13:04] Makes sense I'd say smoking is probably worse than alcohol both are very bad, but smoking is horrible

[00:13:12] Yeah, I would just say they're both very bad don't do either

[00:13:18] It also has a high

[00:13:20] Comorbidity with opposition with defined disorder

[00:13:24] Which is basically resisting conforming to others demands negative

[00:13:28] negativity hostility defines

[00:13:31] Some articles suggest that it's as high as 60%

[00:13:37] And yeah, if someone has ODD it's

[00:13:42] Oppositional defines disorder. Yeah you

[00:13:46] You'll say something and they'll purposely do they almost seem like agitated that you told them to do some and do the opposite

[00:13:52] Even though it doesn't make sense

[00:13:55] It's annoying

[00:14:00] They are also

[00:14:02] Significantly more likely to develop a conduct disorder, which is aggression towards others serious violations of rules in

[00:14:10] Childhood and this actually equates and

[00:14:14] Is the same thing as anti-social personality disorder in adults?

[00:14:20] So the only difference between those two is that the conduct disorder is a child and

[00:14:25] Anti-social personality isn't adult. Okay. I was just talking about this with Julian's brothers

[00:14:33] girlfriend Ashley

[00:14:35] and

[00:14:36] she was saying that

[00:14:39] Conduct disorder you have as a child, but can there can be an intervention and it is a behavior that can be stopped

[00:14:47] Whereas once you have

[00:14:51] Anti-social disorder then it's like

[00:14:55] More so permanent I

[00:14:58] Or that like conduct disorder it could turn into

[00:15:02] Anti-social disorder, but that if there's an intervention early enough then it could be like prevented

[00:15:09] Yeah, it's not like it's literally the same disorder is what it is. But one's in childhood

[00:15:16] And I think that's just because a cultural thing. Yeah, but I just misunderstood what she said

[00:15:22] I think maybe what she could be getting at is that it's just been ingrained for so long that it becomes

[00:15:29] Because anti-social personality disorders, that's a lot of like serial killers of those personalities

[00:15:36] Right and it's a personality meaning that it's not it's a learn

[00:15:41] For the most part a learned behavior

[00:15:44] But it is something that someone could have and they wouldn't even know it people might just think oh there yeah, yeah

[00:15:52] Maybe isolated or quiet or yeah don't seem the most empathetic, but they wouldn't instantly be like holy smokes this person

[00:16:01] Could be on Americans I go

[00:16:03] Yeah, no exactly not everyone's a serial killer that has it

[00:16:07] No

[00:16:10] And it also because of these basically because they have

[00:16:17] High comorbidity with these disorders. It also increases their chances of substance use disorders

[00:16:24] They're also

[00:16:26] correlated

[00:16:30] Yeah, so

[00:16:32] We kind of mentioned before you often hear kids being diagnosed at a young age and how

[00:16:39] One of the arguments is that against us that they just may be kids

[00:16:44] What do you like? Do you think?

[00:16:49] That's the case most of the time

[00:16:52] or I

[00:16:54] Definitely think that

[00:16:56] More recently we've been seeing increased

[00:17:00] diagnoses towards ADHD that

[00:17:03] Probably aren't correct. Yes. Yeah, I think that it's become

[00:17:10] I don't know quite how to say this

[00:17:13] Right, but that it almost has become an excuse that like oh if this

[00:17:19] Child's misbehaving or what people deem to be misbehavior or disruptive behavior

[00:17:25] It's easy to just put that label onto them and say oh well they're behaving this way because

[00:17:31] They have ADHD versus

[00:17:34] putting in you know a lot of effort to try and have more interventions to

[00:17:41] Change or alter their behavior. Yeah, and some kids

[00:17:47] obviously not like

[00:17:49] Completely experienced parent but watching others other kids

[00:17:53] We've had a child for five weeks. I'm not a completely

[00:18:02] Watching that end of work some kids are harder to deal with I don't know if that's the right word but like

[00:18:11] I'm

[00:18:12] Help guide

[00:18:15] They just aren't they don't want to listen or they just feel like

[00:18:21] They don't understand consequences stuff like that one you think a lot about the very basic argument of nature versus nurture, right?

[00:18:28] So it might not be in some of these kids nature to behave with these characteristics

[00:18:35] But because of the way they're being nurtured perhaps at home perhaps with people they're interacting with at school in different environments

[00:18:43] These behaviors are coming out or are being learned

[00:18:47] But it doesn't necessarily mean that they were born with this gene, right? Yeah. Yeah, and that's why I think I wouldn't call it bad parenting

[00:18:56] but I think

[00:18:58] maybe sometimes parents won't realize

[00:19:01] The difference in their kids, I guess and that they need to take a different approach with different kids and

[00:19:09] If it's not dealt with properly in some cases and although it may be difficult to do that it can look like ADHD

[00:19:19] Maybe it's possible that people might sometimes think that oh, they'll just grow out of this behavior

[00:19:24] Which they might but I think often some form of intervention needs to take place to help guide them to

[00:19:33] learn new behaviors and

[00:19:35] Grow out of it versus just making the assumption that oh once they're older, you know kids will be kids

[00:19:42] They'll grow out of it eventually. Yeah. Yeah

[00:19:46] But all this being said

[00:19:50] Kind of makes me think that there is some cases of ADHD

[00:19:54] such as

[00:19:55] Gabber maté suggests that it's caused by unregulated emotions growing up. I

[00:20:03] Definitely agree with that

[00:20:05] and basically it's essentially

[00:20:08] The parents weren't able to help the kid with their like mental difficulties or emotional difficulties

[00:20:14] So is he saying that it's not a gene then?

[00:20:18] I think that's his main thing is that it's a learned behavior and a way to cope

[00:20:24] But I don't think that's completely true. I don't even think those two arguments actually have to be

[00:20:32] Polarized right like it could still be a gene, but having this learned behavior

[00:20:39] Brings it out of you, right?

[00:20:42] Whereas you could still have these same environmental factors

[00:20:45] But if you didn't have the gene maybe you wouldn't exhibit the behavior, but if you have the gene and the

[00:20:51] Contribution of these environmental factors maybe together

[00:20:56] That's what makes you these children exhibit these behaviors or makes ADHD symptoms come to the surface

[00:21:03] Yeah, exactly

[00:21:04] And that's I think a way that more practitioners should go is the like cognitive behavioral

[00:21:11] Direction is that yes people have a genetic predisposition to act a certain way

[00:21:16] But they're acting a certain way in an attempt to regulate their

[00:21:22] behaviors, I guess because a kid if they weren't taught or helped how to regulate their emotions

[00:21:29] They will look fidgety and they'll distract themselves and

[00:21:32] Maybe I don't know eventually

[00:21:35] Use drugs and stuff to try to regulate themselves, right? Yeah

[00:21:40] And also I think it's an epigenetic thing as well meaning that the environment will unlock those

[00:21:49] Symptoms of ADHD. Yeah, and you said it's not necessarily a cop-out, but

[00:21:56] parents use that as an excuse

[00:21:59] parents or

[00:22:00] Coaches or teachers. Yeah doctors

[00:22:04] I think even like I don't know teens or young adults do it a lot on tiktok

[00:22:10] I've seen a few videos and actually annoys me

[00:22:13] It's almost like a cop-out because they can't focus or get things done and stuff

[00:22:18] But they're self-diagnosing. Yeah, exactly

[00:22:22] But like honestly it could just be they're over exerted at work. They're stressed out overstimulated. Mm-hmm. Yeah

[00:22:29] We spend all day looking at tiktok videos and then wonder why they can't focus on something more than eight seconds

[00:22:37] Or they'll just cite like a single article and be like oh I have this

[00:22:42] Symptom and the science shows that it has to be ADHD

[00:22:45] But again go get the evaluation and get an official diagnosis. Yeah

[00:22:53] There has been some research

[00:22:57] Although it's minimal

[00:22:58] That individuals with ADHD are an increased risk of problematic social media use and

[00:23:05] I would say an attempt to self-soothe

[00:23:08] Okay

[00:23:09] We're moving along quite well

[00:23:12] Awesome first episode back we're flying through mm-hmm and that's okay if it's a little shorter

[00:23:19] He's back into this. Yes

[00:23:21] So next I want to go over the treatment options for ADHD

[00:23:26] Just as a basis for this part of the conversation

[00:23:29] It's well known that ADHD is related to definite the deficiency of dopamine in the brain because of this

[00:23:38] Individuals with ADHD are wired to seek more

[00:23:42] Exciting experiences etc than neurotypical individuals and neurotypical means someone who does not have ADHD

[00:23:51] And that could be a reason why they're like everywhere. They're constantly searching for that like dopamine hit

[00:23:58] Yeah, that definitely makes sense that being said there's deficits in their dopamine and it can occur at any point along their

[00:24:08] dopanyljuric

[00:24:10] pathway

[00:24:15] Nope I

[00:24:17] Mind a bitch of that

[00:24:20] I don't know what the word is so

[00:24:24] I'm gonna just say that you nailed it

[00:24:28] Anyway, sorry. Yeah dopanyljuric the new study some new studies have shown that individuals with ADHD have a higher

[00:24:37] DTT

[00:24:38] Dopamine transporter density

[00:24:41] Meaning that dopamine is more quickly removed from the cells. So I don't want to go into too much detail about this

[00:24:47] but basically there's dopamine pathways in your brain and

[00:24:52] One of the ways that our brain uses dopamine is that

[00:24:58] It uses transporter cells or transporters to remove

[00:25:03] the dopamine from our cells and then it goes into a

[00:25:07] Synapse and goes on potentially to the next cell. That's how the pathway works. Okay

[00:25:13] Yeah, but also straightforward sort of yeah, so people with

[00:25:19] ADHD have more of these transporters so they can take dopamine out of the cells quicker

[00:25:25] Meaning that doesn't last in depleted. Yes, exactly

[00:25:29] So they still have the same pathway. It's just like I don't know

[00:25:32] I kind of like literally pictures like they're on hyperactive mode where things moving faster. Yeah, it's I think you can pretty easily

[00:25:42] Create a picture of you know when people always say like I have a really fast metabolism

[00:25:47] so they say that like they get hungrier faster or they

[00:25:52] Stay skinnier easier because they're burning so much energy

[00:25:58] So that's kind of what I'm picturing in my mind. Yeah, yeah, just working quicker

[00:26:03] Then or moving it transporting it faster than some other people. Yeah, exactly

[00:26:08] Meaning your reward pathway means if you do something you get a reward. I shot a dopamine, right?

[00:26:14] So it wouldn't be maintained enough for you to be

[00:26:18] Concentrated and focused on that one task for long enough you get a hit. It's gone move on to the next thing

[00:26:24] Kind of thing right and it makes sense that way when you see their behavior

[00:26:28] That's why there's lots of tasks started but not completed

[00:26:33] Yeah

[00:26:35] Other researchers suggest that the cause ADHD could be more related to a reduced amount of gray matter

[00:26:42] which is basically your dendrites and cell bodies in the brain and

[00:26:46] essentially that would just mean it kind of

[00:26:49] Reduces the connectivity in the brain and the function of the reward pathways

[00:26:55] So they're not as like

[00:26:57] Well dense in my opinion. Yeah. Yeah, so it would be so this is my analogy that I was thinking of we were playing

[00:27:05] What the the Mario?

[00:27:08] 3d world Mario

[00:27:11] Yeah, the one with the cats super Mario 3d world. Yeah, or you can change into cats and yes

[00:27:17] leaf persons I

[00:27:20] Thought of the reward pathway as like a bridge one of those bridges in the game

[00:27:25] They have to go over but the tiles fall. Oh, yeah

[00:27:29] and

[00:27:31] Basically the other side of the bridge is the reward

[00:27:35] That you want to do get from a task so both ADHD individuals and

[00:27:41] Neurotepicals are both gonna try getting over to the side in this situation

[00:27:46] But I would consider the dopamine is like the building blocks of this bridge that are gonna fall away

[00:27:53] For so for the neurotypical the tiles are gonna stay up longer when you step on them and there's also gonna be more of them

[00:28:01] So you can take your time going across the bridge

[00:28:04] Whereas the ADHD

[00:28:07] Individual is gonna kind of have to go quickly and there's not much time to think about

[00:28:11] What you're doing right then you land on the next one and you have a choice to go left or right

[00:28:16] You don't have time to make a decision. So you just go away

[00:28:19] And I think that's kind of

[00:28:22] Makes sense a little to me. Yeah, I like that

[00:28:26] If anyone has played that game, hopefully you you're able to follow along

[00:28:32] Yeah, so

[00:28:34] the

[00:28:35] most common treatment for ADHD is to prescribe stimulants such as

[00:28:41] amphetamines which is

[00:28:43] Adderall Ritalin to increase the level of dopamine in an individual's brain

[00:28:49] theoretically making them

[00:28:51] function, but better

[00:28:53] Normal I guess maybe is what they use for terminology

[00:28:59] That being said

[00:29:01] It's pretty common with people with ADHD to self-medicate using other ways that you can get dopamine

[00:29:09] So obviously food a big one social media sex

[00:29:14] other drugs

[00:29:17] You could see how because

[00:29:20] Methamphetamine is pretty similar to amphetamine and a

[00:29:26] Lot of people would feel better using those drugs

[00:29:30] So is it common for people who?

[00:29:33] Have ADHD to also experience addiction in some way

[00:29:39] Yeah, yeah, it's

[00:29:41] To be honest most

[00:29:44] Disorders in the DSM. There's a high co-morbidity of some other type of thing

[00:29:50] Addiction seems to be a common one

[00:29:53] When it can be addiction of many things like you listed all those other things people might go to to get those

[00:30:00] stimulants so it might not just be drugs necessarily but it could be food it could be relationships different things like that

[00:30:08] Then you throw in

[00:30:11] Purdue pharmaceuticals and you have a well

[00:30:16] Again theoretically, I don't think this isn't the case with the ADHD medication, but

[00:30:22] You could think that you're being prescribed something maybe is too much or too little and

[00:30:30] it's affecting you in bizarre ways and

[00:30:34] You don't think twice about it because it's legally prescribed to you and you're just trusting that your doctor knows what they're prescribing

[00:30:43] Yes, reality is that

[00:30:46] if anyone caught Julian's mentioned a Purdue pharmaceuticals if you've watched the new show on

[00:30:52] Netflix called painkiller

[00:30:54] very good highly recommend all about Oxycontin and

[00:31:00] essentially about how

[00:31:02] Doctors were being in some sense is manipulated or in some senses

[00:31:08] Also, just like down to benefit from over prescribing

[00:31:12] Oxycontin to people

[00:31:14] That epidemic that caused that actually made me think I kind of want to look into how

[00:31:20] What difference is there are for a public health care system versus a private health care system in terms of

[00:31:28] Trans payments to doctors because I although it still isn't somewhat of an epidemic in Canada

[00:31:35] I think it's far less than what is happening in the States. Yeah, I wonder because in that show

[00:31:42] The doctors it seemed made money

[00:31:46] Based on the prescriptions they wrote per milligram

[00:31:51] Whereas I don't think that happens in Canada. No and but I would like to actually know if

[00:31:57] Maybe it's prescriptions in Canada. Maybe that's how it works. I don't know we should look into that more

[00:32:04] But that would out here is like in the healthcare system and knows

[00:32:08] something about how

[00:32:10] That works in comparison to the states definitely

[00:32:14] Drop us a comment somewhere and let us know definitely because I think just being paid on prescriptions

[00:32:20] Yes, it's still

[00:32:22] Encourages over prescribing somewhat but at least then it doesn't encourage

[00:32:27] over

[00:32:29] Dosing dosing. Yeah, which I think is far worse than over prescribing at least who knows so I will look into that

[00:32:36] We'll find out in the future episode with all that being said

[00:32:42] People actually abuse

[00:32:44] Adderall and Ritalin when they don't have ADHD because it provides a new fork effect

[00:32:50] Yeah, we've definitely seen that in the university setting

[00:32:54] Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's quite common there and you know like people that don't have access to

[00:33:00] Hard drugs illegal black market drugs. They will get rid of linen and chop it up and

[00:33:06] Snort it. Oh, yeah, you've never heard of that

[00:33:10] No, I'm not that deep in the Ritalin game

[00:33:13] Yeah, I've seen that happen

[00:33:15] And people will with

[00:33:18] Diagnosed with ADHD will not take their meds and sell it to make money

[00:33:22] Yeah, I know that I know of that happening of or people getting

[00:33:27] Prescriptions that they don't actually need so then they can sell right what can you do about it though?

[00:33:34] Also another thing to take note of again. I'm not a professional yet

[00:33:38] but

[00:33:41] If someone is prescribed ADHD medication and you notice that their symptoms start to get worse

[00:33:49] Maybe that's a sign like we just talked about because when you don't have ADHD it actually makes you more hyperactive

[00:33:55] Maybe that's a sign that they don't actually have ADHD and it's another issue

[00:34:01] Again, it could be a low too low of a dose too high of a dose because I could see that happening as well

[00:34:07] Well, yeah again just get a trusted

[00:34:10] Professional's opinion on the proper treatment and I'm not bashing a regular medical doctor

[00:34:14] But get a specialist when you're taking drugs like this it is a wait list

[00:34:19] But that should eventually be down your avenue of treatment when you're if you're looking at getting on to

[00:34:27] Medication like this. That's something long term for your health

[00:34:31] And to be on so it definitely is worth the extra time and

[00:34:37] Energy and effort that it would take to make sure that you're getting the right dose and the right medication

[00:34:42] Because you don't want to be taking something for years

[00:34:45] That was actually maybe exasperating a problem for you. Yeah

[00:34:51] So I actually found a study in terms of taking

[00:34:55] Infetamines

[00:34:57] in the

[00:34:58] BMJ journal and they looked at the correlation between ADHD children and

[00:35:04] methylphenidate which is I think it's I think that one's riddolin don't quote me on that but the

[00:35:10] Generic name for it. They found that children who took this medication their classroom performance improved

[00:35:17] And it comes with non serious side effects such as sleeping problems and decreased appetite

[00:35:24] And there was no serious side effects that parents should be worried about

[00:35:29] That's so interesting that they would consider

[00:35:33] Sleeping problems and a decreased appetite a non serious problem because to me like those are pretty serious

[00:35:40] Like if a child is not able to get a restful sleep anymore

[00:35:44] That's gonna really negatively impact them and if they're not

[00:35:48] Hungry and then not eating food

[00:35:51] To me

[00:35:52] I know they're not maybe as immediately

[00:35:56] Demental or serious as some side effects can be but long-term to me

[00:36:01] Those are pretty serious side effects to just be writing off like oh parents shouldn't be worried

[00:36:07] Mm-hmm. No, I agree and to be honest

[00:36:09] I don't know the research specifically on ADHD and gut health, but they're finding the importance of gut health in your mental health

[00:36:17] So again, that would just make it worse almost and also sleep for me is a big one

[00:36:24] If I can't get

[00:36:26] Somewhat of a proper sleep. I start seeing symptoms

[00:36:30] So also there is behavioral therapy treatments the individuals that ADHD can utilize to

[00:36:37] Improve their quality of life the focus of these therapies would be learning new skills and coping mechanisms to deal

[00:36:46] with their symptoms and

[00:36:49] Used in conjunction with medication is the most helpful way to

[00:36:55] Get a higher quality of life because the medication can sometimes take the edge off of things and at least give you a little more

[00:37:04] Focus and stuff that is required to get the most out of therapy. That's what I would recommend

[00:37:11] with that again

[00:37:14] the evidence suggests that short-term use and

[00:37:18] somewhat long-term use will not cause adverse effects with

[00:37:23] this medication, but I know from my experience in the

[00:37:29] AA rooms they commonly say that it takes about 18 months for your brain to chemically go back to normal

[00:37:37] Anecdotally that makes sense to me. I don't know scientifically

[00:37:41] but it takes you're putting a chemical in your brain and

[00:37:44] It's gonna change the way your brain is it's gonna form pathways using the addition of the neurotransmitters and

[00:37:51] When you take that out because it has similar effects as like cocaine or methamphetamine

[00:37:57] You're gonna have withdrawals of some sort. I would imagine I would think so and

[00:38:03] With the withdrawals is kind of indication that your body needs to go back to normal

[00:38:09] You're normal. I guess I know they say there's no adverse effects and stuff

[00:38:15] But maybe maybe they're not permanent

[00:38:17] but there is somewhat long-term short medium term effects a

[00:38:23] Final little thing I want to get into here is just misdiagnosis

[00:38:28] Recent systemic review by Kazder and her colleague

[00:38:31] Suggested that ADHD is over misdiagnosed in children and adolescents

[00:38:37] Yep

[00:38:38] Mm-hmm because it I know for me growing up a lot of the time in the younger grades

[00:38:46] I was just there was a lack of stimulation. I caught on to things in the lower grades quite easily

[00:38:52] But then once I got it, I couldn't like it's just boring, right?

[00:38:57] and I could see a lot of kids

[00:39:00] Up here to have a HD because well, maybe they're just smart honestly

[00:39:05] On that same note less is known about the symptoms of ADHD in females. They suspect that they show up differently

[00:39:14] Than males so that's another issue that can cause misdiagnosis or over diagnosis

[00:39:20] I briefly touched on this is

[00:39:23] If your medication is not helping your ADHD and quotation marks may be a different type of

[00:39:33] Disorder and as you know what trauma can cause the same symptoms PTSD can cause the same symptoms as ADHD

[00:39:41] Mania can cause the same symptoms

[00:39:44] It's worth discussing with your profession healthcare professional about these things

[00:39:50] And if it's the wrong medication that can make symptoms worse

[00:39:54] Which is why it's good to go to an expert because

[00:40:00] Hopefully they will be having those slightly longer conversations with you before giving you a prescription to try and

[00:40:08] understand your health journey as a whole and

[00:40:13] Make sure that they're not prescribing wrong whereas

[00:40:17] at least I've heard that

[00:40:19] When you are getting prescriptions from just a normal doctor or something

[00:40:23] It's usually just like a quicker conversation and okay. Well, let's try this

[00:40:28] Whereas if you've gone through the time and you're seeing that expert

[00:40:33] There should be and if there isn't then advocate for yourself to make sure that you're having that long detailed

[00:40:39] conversation with them before just accepting

[00:40:42] an immediate diagnosis and prescription yes, I agree and you know one thing that

[00:40:49] I don't think is weird to say about kids is a lot of kids can have anxiety

[00:40:55] And maybe it'll show up different than an adult

[00:40:58] But like you can see kids at fidgets or they're really restless and stuff like that

[00:41:02] Maybe they just have anxiety and they're just like high-strung. They have anxiety and they're over stimulated

[00:41:09] No, right like there's just so much going on with whether it's being on social media

[00:41:17] TV but it just feels like

[00:41:20] Not just kids but everyone us included are just constantly being stimulated by things which I think can also show up

[00:41:29] as

[00:41:30] Looking or appearing like anxiety

[00:41:33] Yeah, and to be honest if you spend like two maybe I know I've done this before

[00:41:40] Honestly said to admit it like sat on my phone for like four hours straight and just growing. Yeah

[00:41:46] and I

[00:41:48] Don't think people should underestimate the effect that

[00:41:53] What you do during your day has an effect on your attention span like we're kind of trained

[00:41:59] Now I'm not saying like like conspiracy wise to have a certain attention span, but

[00:42:05] when you watch movies that are 20 minutes long or

[00:42:10] TV shows are 20 minutes long or movies that are two hours long or tip-talks that are like a minute long

[00:42:16] That trains our attention span

[00:42:19] So what's funny?

[00:42:21] This is getting a little over getting a little off topic here, but oh well

[00:42:26] how

[00:42:27] If someone releases a movie that's like three hours long

[00:42:30] We'll be like, oh my goodness. Hey, can you me you want me to sit here for three hours and watch?

[00:42:35] But we'll gladly sit and watch three like 45 minute long episodes or six half an hour long episodes

[00:42:43] Like no problem. Yeah, I know it's yeah

[00:42:46] I kind of like the longer movies sense excuse. I don't feel so bad about watching

[00:42:51] It's like I only wanted one movie

[00:42:54] Didn't binge a show all day

[00:42:56] That's pretty much it final thing again

[00:42:59] Emphasize do not self-diagnose yourself based on or others

[00:43:06] Yes, what you see on social media or what you believe in your own research

[00:43:12] To be don't take anything we said today as medical advice exactly

[00:43:16] Go talk to psychiatrists or psychometrist to receive a professional opinion

[00:43:22] and

[00:43:23] Be safe out there

[00:43:27] We haven't ended an episode in a while I know yes

[00:43:32] Peace yeah, yeah

[00:43:35] I guess we need to ask people to

[00:43:38] Subscribe yeah, if but first if you have a topic that you'd like us to talk about

[00:43:45] Send us a message and our DMs on social media and email or we can be found on patreon and also leave us a review and

[00:43:54] We will see you next time